WEBVTT

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Prof: So good morning.

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Well today we have a fun topic:
suicide.

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Actually I didn't realize how
much interest there is amongst

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students in suicide.

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Once we invited a professor
from Australia,

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who wanted to teach a course on
death and suicide,

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and I was very concerned that
no students will take it;

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and the class was full.

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So it looks like suicide is a
popular topic.

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And I think I know why.

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Because when I was your age,
occasionally it occurred to my

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mind, what if I commit suicide?

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Right?

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So I think thinking about
suicide is probably something

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what crossed many of yours mind.

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And therefore hopefully
Durkheim will be exciting for

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you, and will help you to
understand why did you consider

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it and why you did not do it?

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Right?

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Or why your friends or
acquaintances thought about it.

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Some of them may have tried;
some may have killed themselves.

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Anyway, so this is about
Suicide.

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And as I said already before,
this is a path-breaking book,

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in many ways.

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It's really the first rigorous
empirical study of a social

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phenomenon--
and a very curious social

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phenomenon,
and we will talk about this as

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the lecture unfolds.

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Because we tend to think about
suicide as something very

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personal--right?--and
individual.

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And all right,
if a psychologist is interested

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in suicide, it's understandable.

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But why on earth a sociologist
would be interested in suicide?

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It is so rare,
socially, fortunately--I mean,

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not in some societies,
but in most,

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very rare.

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And it looks like it's so much
a question of individual

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decision.

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So why should a social
scientist try to explain it?

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So Durkheim sets for himself a
very difficult task,

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and he does it formidably.

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I will show you that he does
some spectacular methodological

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innovations.

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He kind of offers
methodological insights,

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what social scientists are
excited about,

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even today, well over a century
after he published this book.

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Okay, so that's about
Suicide.

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And first of all,
I will ask a few general

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questions.

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And first of all,
the question is what is

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suicide?

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When do we decide that a death
is suicide?

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And then also I would like to
pose the question,

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what are the reasons for social
scientists to study it?

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And Durkheim gives some very
good reasons.

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And finally,
I will introduce Durkheim's

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typology of suicide.

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Many Durkheim scholars were
struggling with this,

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how to make sense of this
typology?

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And I will show you one way how
to do it.

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Sort of there are--his major
types are egoistic,

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altruistic, anomic and
fatalistic suicide,

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and I will talk about each of
them in turn.

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Okay, so let me start with the
definition.

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And this is tricky, by the way.

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Also it's extremely tricky,
when it comes to statistics,

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to figure out what statistics
do report as suicide.

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When people die,
especially if they do not leave

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a letter behind,
it's very hard to decide

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whether that person actually
committed suicide or it was just

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an accident.

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Well there are occasions when
this is quite obvious.

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Right?

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Somebody's hanging himself,
or herself,--

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which is a favorite way of
committing suicide,

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of a certain type of people,
in certain instances,

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right?--and the way how
somebody hanged himself makes it

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quite clear that it was a
suicide.

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But doctors investigating the
cause of death very often are

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puzzled whether this is suicide
or not.

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So you clearly have an overdose
of sleeping pills;

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it's unclear whether it was an
accident, accidentally you took

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more pills that you should have,
or whether this was actually a

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suicide.

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So there is a lot of problem in
studying statistical data about

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suicide,
and very often doctors do make

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judgments on the social
circumstances of the person who

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committed suicide.

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Right?

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They read Durkheim,
or they have read some social

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scientist.

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They tell these are the kind of
people, under these

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circumstances,
who commit suicide.

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So they go to the scene,
they look at the dead person,

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look at the circumstances.

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This is an old man whose wife
just passed away very recently.

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So that must be,
of course, suicide.

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Right?

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So therefore what is suicide is
being defined by the

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circumstances,
rather than actually by the

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medical reasons.

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Okay, so let's try to struggle
a little bit this,

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what is suicide;
under what circumstances can we

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talk about suicide?

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And here is Durkheim's
definition.

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"The term suicide"--
right?--"is applied to all

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cases of deaths resulting
directly,

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or indirectly,
a positive or a negative act of

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the victim himself,
which he knows will produce

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these results."

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Well looks like a very
complicated definition,

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but a very full and a very good
one.

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And the first point is
intention.

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Right?

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That in order to call a death
suicide, there must be intention

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on behalf of the person who
commits suicide.

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Well this intention can be
varied.

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Well the aim might not be
necessarily self-destruction.

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The aim may be something else.

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For instance,
you can think about suicide

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bombers.

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Right?

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They don't want to kill
themselves;

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they want to kill others,
but they use their body as a

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weapon--right?--and they explode
themselves in order to cause

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harm to others.

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Right?

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But that's clearly a case of
suicide,

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because they know that they
will die as a consequence of

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their action,
and therefore it can be called

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suicide,
though it is not aimed at the

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person himself.

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Well the act of suicide can be
indirect, and in fact it can be

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negative.

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Sort of you--most suicide is a
direct and positive action.

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Right?

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You jump from the fortieth
floor--right?--and then you kill

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yourself.

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You take sleeping pills,
an overdose,

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and you kill yourself.

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But it can be indirect and
negative;

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I mean, you can starve yourself
to death, and that can be called

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suicide, as long as your
intention is to kill yourself.

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Right?

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So it becomes very tricky.

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What do you do with people who
are abusing drugs or alcohol?

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Right?

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They may actually die as a
result of excessive alcohol or

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drug consumption.

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If it is not intentional,
they don't want to kill

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themselves;
they just like

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boozing--right?--they just like
cocaine--right?--then it is not

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suicide.

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Right?

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There are lots of Russians who
have been dying in the last

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thirty-five years;
their numbers--especially

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middle-age Russian men were
dying like flies because they

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are drinking too much vodka.

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In the overwhelming majority of
the cases, this is not suicide.

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Right?

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They are depressed;
they are silly,

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they think drinking vodka will
help their depression,

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and as a result they will get
liver cancer and they will die.

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Right?

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So it was not suicide.

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Well, if you lock yourself into
your room, you take sleeping

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pills and you drink a bottle of
vodka in order to kill yourself,

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then it was suicide.

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Right?

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So anyway, you have to know the
consequences of your action.

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You have to know that what you
do will kill yourself,

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in order for your act to
qualify as a suicide.

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So I think this is really
beautifully done,

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and has been extremely
influential for social

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scientists.

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As I said, it makes a very big
challenge to medical

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investigators who try to
determine the cause of death,

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because it's very difficult to
establish the intention.

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Right?

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And in most of the cases of
suicide, you cannot be

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absolutely sure of the
intention.

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You don't know whether this was
an accident or whether it was

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intentional,
unless the victim of the

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suicide will tell you,
leaves a letter behind and

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tells that I committed suicide.

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Okay.

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Well, as I said,
it looks like that suicide is

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very much a very personal
action.

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Right?

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Well occasionally people talk
about their intention to commit

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suicide.

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When and if they do so,
they probably will not do it.

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Right?

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Those who are serious about
suicide keep it to themselves,

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and then kill themselves.

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Those who talk about "I'm
suicidal",

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very often simply want to have
attention.

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Right?

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And then even if they attempt
suicide, often it's kind of

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fake.

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They're smart enough,
they just take a little

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overdose of sleeping pills,
but not too much.

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Because they already told they
are suicidal--right?--their

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friend rushes them to the
hospital and they will be all

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right.

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Right?

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So anyway, it's a very
individual act.

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You usually keep your intention
to commit suicide to yourself,

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rather than discussing with
somebody else.

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And it looks like taking your
life away is really your own

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business.

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So the question is,
why on earth people who study

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society should be interested in
this very individual,

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very private act?

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And well he said,
"Look at,

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for instance,
the suicide rate,

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how it varies across
countries."

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And he said there is a
tremendous difference in suicide

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rate across countries.

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There are countries with very
low, and there are other

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countries with very,
very high suicide rates,

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relatively speaking.

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Suicide is nowhere the
top-ranking cause of death,

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though in some countries,
in certain age groups,

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it can easily enter the top
five causes of death.

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And, on top of this,
those countries where people

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commit suicide tend to be
countries where people committed

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suicide for a long time.

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It's a very stable indicator.

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Scandinavian countries are ones
where usually the suicide rate

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is reasonably high.

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My native Hungary is a country
which for a very long time was

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proud of being number one in
committing suicide.

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Right?

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Well incidentally--this is not
in Durkheim,

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but if I may add to this--there
were people who were--

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of course, Durkheim inspired,
and still inspires,

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a lot of research on suicide.

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He has been challenged on many
questions, but he is still,

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after 110 years,
the agenda-setter on suicide

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research.

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If any one of you become a
biologist, a sociologist,

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a doctor, and want to conduct
research on suicide,

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you will have to cite Durkheim.

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Right?

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You have to start from Durkheim
if you are studying this.

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Well anyway,
there were people inspired by

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him and looked further inside
countries.

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And what is interesting,
that within countries there are

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actually gigantic differences
between regions.

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There are some regions in these
countries with very high,

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and some regions of these
countries with relatively low

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suicide rates,
and these are pretty constant

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as such.

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Well I had a colleague--as I
said,

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it's probably not too parochial
for me to refer to Hungary,

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because now Hungary is I think
only number two or three in the

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world,
in suicide rate,

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but has been number one for a
century.

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So anyway, I had a colleague
who did a detailed study in

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Hungary about suicide,
inspired by Durkheim,

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and found that there were
certain regions in the country

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where the suicide rates were
particularly high--

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as well it was low.

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And he actually could identify
the type of people who committed

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suicide and the way how they
committed suicide,

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for instance.

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And that has been stable for a
century, as far as it was

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possible to go back in
statistics.

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Just to give you an
example--and it will also help

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us when we are looking at
Durkheim's typology of suicide.

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For instance,
he found that male farmers,

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old male farmers,
living in detached farms,

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when their wife passes away
unexpectedly--

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women are expected to live
longer than men,

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right?--when their wife passes
away unexpectedly,

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the typical way what men does:
they hang themselves in the

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attic;
and this happens again and

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again.

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Detached farms,
old men, wife died,

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people go up and hang
themselves.

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Right?

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Suicide, to put in another way,
is a way of dying.

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Right?

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There are some circumstances in
which in certain societies you

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know that this is the answer to
your problem,

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that you commit suicide.

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Right?

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If you are a man--we are
usually pretty dumb,

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we don't know how to cook,
we don't know how to take care

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of ourselves--
you are old,

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your wife died,
so what do you do?

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You commit
suicide--right?--under certain

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circumstances.

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Right?

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Anyway, I think this is a--this
is why it makes it interesting--

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right?--for social scientists,
that there are interesting

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social patterns,
cultural patterns,

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how people commit suicide.

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And Durkheim will work on this
as much.

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And then he said there are,
in fact, large,

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big historical events,
which do have an impact on

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suicide rates.

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You would think if there is a
big social turmoil,

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then suicide rate will go up.

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You are wrong.

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If there is a big social
turmoil, suicide rate tends to

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be going down,
because there is--in times of

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revolution, people don't commit
suicide.

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Anyway, his point is that
suicide is a collective

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phenomenon.

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Right?

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Somehow it is socially
determined as a phenomenon.

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Okay, now this is the typology
of suicide.

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And I have been struggling with
this, and people who know much

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more about Durkheim have been
struggling with this typology.

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And what of course I was trying
to do,

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as others were trying to do,
to do a 2 x 2 table--

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right?--and to put these types
of suicide in this 2 x 2 table.

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Durkheim, in writing about
suicide, seemed to make a

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distinction between the question
of integration and regulation.

19:49.976 --> 19:50.836
Right?

19:50.838 --> 19:58.118
Integration means how tightly
organized a group or society is

19:58.115 --> 20:00.295
in which you live.

20:00.298 --> 20:01.388
Right?

20:01.390 --> 20:05.530
And as I already pointed out in
the earlier

20:05.530 --> 20:10.950
lecture--right?--Durkheim has
this idea of normal versus

20:10.952 --> 20:12.632
pathological.

20:12.630 --> 20:20.460
And I will talk about this in
more detail in the last lecture

20:20.463 --> 20:24.123
on Durkheim's methodology.

20:24.118 --> 20:29.928
He has this interesting idea
that what is normal is the kind

20:29.929 --> 20:31.209
of typical.

20:31.210 --> 20:35.600
To put it very crudely,
normal is kind of the average.

20:35.598 --> 20:40.148
If it is too much or too
little, this is pathological or

20:40.150 --> 20:42.660
abnormal;
that is the idea.

20:42.660 --> 20:47.950
So therefore one dimension in
which he uses the typology is

20:47.951 --> 20:53.421
integration--right?--how well
integrated we are into a social

20:53.424 --> 20:55.254
group we are in.

20:55.250 --> 20:58.760
And that can be too high or it
can be too low.

20:58.756 --> 20:59.376
Right?

20:59.380 --> 21:05.480
And both too high integration
and too low integration can be

21:05.476 --> 21:08.986
the cause of social pathologies.

21:08.990 --> 21:11.630
And one of the social
pathologies is that you kill

21:11.630 --> 21:12.120
yourself.

21:12.115 --> 21:12.595
Right?

21:12.598 --> 21:18.828
And the other dimension is
regulation;

21:18.828 --> 21:24.708
how much, how tight,
how rigorous the norms are

21:24.714 --> 21:28.814
which regulates your behavior.

21:28.808 --> 21:32.918
Again, it can be too high or it
can be too low.

21:32.920 --> 21:38.880
And it will affect also the
pathologies.

21:38.880 --> 21:46.010
If you are away from the golden
middle road--that's what

21:46.010 --> 21:50.420
Durkheim's idea of modernity is.

21:50.420 --> 21:55.710
If you are on the golden middle
road, then you are normal.

21:55.710 --> 21:59.820
If you deviate,
you are abnormal.

21:59.818 --> 22:03.448
This is a very problematic
proposition in Durkheim,

22:03.451 --> 22:05.341
and has been challenged.

22:05.338 --> 22:09.198
Well the big trouble is,
are these two dimensions

22:09.200 --> 22:12.980
independent from each other,
or they overlap?

22:12.980 --> 22:18.250
And it's really they are not
really completely independent

22:18.246 --> 22:19.906
from each other.

22:19.910 --> 22:24.480
This is why you could not put
this into a 2 x 2 table--

22:24.480 --> 22:31.370
right?--because some of the
types of abnormalities can be

22:31.365 --> 22:38.615
only understood in integration
or in terms of regulation.

22:38.618 --> 22:42.908
But anyway, I think this is
probably the best way I can come

22:42.910 --> 22:45.970
up with,
or in the Durkheim literature

22:45.972 --> 22:51.082
the best way I have read,
basically using these two

22:51.078 --> 22:59.018
dimensions as--
not as a 2 x 2 table;

22:59.019 --> 23:06.889
sort of, to put it this way,
rather than a 2 x 2 table,

23:06.892 --> 23:10.542
it's like two dimensions.

23:10.537 --> 23:11.847
Right?

23:11.848 --> 23:13.708
And then you have the two types
over here.

23:13.714 --> 23:14.084
Right?

23:14.078 --> 23:19.348
Too high and too
low--right?--and you have

23:19.346 --> 23:24.226
integration and you have
regulation.

23:24.230 --> 23:31.970
And high and low and high and
low;

23:31.970 --> 23:33.810
this is how you can do it.

23:33.813 --> 23:34.313
Right?

23:34.309 --> 23:35.909
You can conceptualize it.

23:35.910 --> 23:42.600
But it doesn't work,
you put it in a normal 2 x 2

23:42.595 --> 23:43.705
table.

23:43.710 --> 23:44.670
Okay.

23:44.670 --> 23:48.190
Well let me start to talk about
egoistic suicide.

23:48.192 --> 23:48.782
Right?

23:48.779 --> 23:57.689
And therefore--right?--egoistic
suicide has something to do with

23:57.692 --> 24:03.922
social integration,
and it is a case when the

24:03.919 --> 24:08.729
social integration is too low.

24:08.730 --> 24:12.610
And he said,
well the more weakened the

24:12.605 --> 24:18.205
group to which the person who
committed suicide belongs,

24:18.214 --> 24:21.484
the less he depends on them.

24:21.480 --> 24:26.590
And he calls this egoism. Right?

24:26.588 --> 24:33.008
If you don't--you are yourself
and you are not--do not feel

24:33.008 --> 24:38.978
responsible to your own group,
and therefore you may be

24:38.983 --> 24:41.533
committing suicide.

24:41.529 --> 24:46.979
Again, people who are
considering suicide--

24:46.980 --> 24:54.400
just to show the lack of egoism
and the importance of the

24:54.396 --> 24:57.176
group--
well you may think you have a

24:57.183 --> 25:00.323
good enough reason to kill
yourself: "My life doesn't

25:00.318 --> 25:01.748
have any purpose."

25:01.750 --> 25:05.970
"My boy or girlfriend left
me, so therefore I'd rather kill

25:05.965 --> 25:06.965
myself."

25:06.970 --> 25:10.660
And then they say,
"Well I can't really do

25:10.662 --> 25:12.112
this to Mom."

25:12.106 --> 25:12.826
Right?

25:12.828 --> 25:16.548
"I cannot disappoint my
parents."

25:16.550 --> 25:17.260
Right?

25:17.259 --> 25:20.939
So therefore you are not--you
cannot act egoistically.

25:20.942 --> 25:21.502
Right?

25:21.500 --> 25:24.720
You belong to a group,
and because the tightness,

25:24.717 --> 25:28.937
the solidarity with the group
prevents you to commit suicide.

25:28.940 --> 25:35.190
So in order to act egoistically
means that you don't care about

25:35.191 --> 25:39.931
others, or you care first of all
about yourself,

25:39.930 --> 25:41.140
as such.

25:41.140 --> 25:43.780
Well the solidarity can be
different.

25:43.779 --> 25:48.019
It can be religion,
it can be family,

25:48.019 --> 25:51.199
or it can be the society.

25:51.200 --> 25:55.870
And let me speak to this.

25:55.868 --> 26:00.048
And if this religion,
family or society,

26:00.054 --> 26:06.284
as such, offers sufficient
solidarity, then you will not be

26:06.278 --> 26:09.388
likely to commit suicide.

26:09.390 --> 26:16.240
Okay, so let me talk about
religion and suicide,

26:16.237 --> 26:23.517
and also a bit about how
religion and education are

26:23.521 --> 26:28.331
linked together with suicide.

26:28.328 --> 26:32.938
Durkheim does here something
really path-breaking.

26:32.940 --> 26:37.490
Though the statistical
technologies were not available,

26:37.492 --> 26:41.792
he really does the logic of
multivariate statistical

26:41.792 --> 26:42.892
analysis.

26:42.890 --> 26:47.290
He almost does a regression
model, to put it this way,

26:47.294 --> 26:48.794
without numbers.

26:48.788 --> 26:51.698
But that's the logic of the
argument.

26:51.700 --> 26:55.170
And then he's talking about
what he calls the Jewish

26:55.172 --> 26:56.332
exceptionalism.

26:56.328 --> 27:02.678
Well this will be interesting,
because the fundamental idea is

27:02.676 --> 27:06.646
that,
in fact, generally people who

27:06.651 --> 27:12.171
are more educated are more
likely to commit suicide.

27:12.174 --> 27:13.154
Right?

27:13.150 --> 27:20.240
There is also a relationship
between religion and suicide.

27:20.240 --> 27:24.100
Protestants are more likely to
commit suicide;

27:24.098 --> 27:27.898
Catholics less likely to commit
suicide.

27:27.900 --> 27:32.780
Catholics are less educated;
Protestants are more educated.

27:32.779 --> 27:35.739
Being more educated,
the Protestant,

27:35.738 --> 27:39.458
makes you more susceptible to
commit suicide,

27:39.455 --> 27:40.635
he argues.

27:40.640 --> 27:42.710
But Jews are an exception.

27:42.710 --> 27:46.580
Because Jewish suicide rate is
generally very low,

27:46.577 --> 27:49.417
and Jews are very highly
educated.

27:49.420 --> 27:51.380
So that's the Jewish puzzle.

27:51.380 --> 27:51.870
Right?

27:51.868 --> 27:55.388
Why on earth highly educated
Jews don't kill themselves?

27:55.390 --> 27:59.320
If you are--right?--a Lutheran,
or a Presbyterian,

27:59.315 --> 28:02.435
and you are educated,
you kill yourself.

28:02.438 --> 28:03.238
Right?

28:03.240 --> 28:05.140
Why Jews don't? Right?

28:05.140 --> 28:06.470
That's the puzzle.

28:06.470 --> 28:11.480
What is the relationship
between education and religion?

28:11.480 --> 28:16.150
And why on earth education
leads to a higher level of

28:16.152 --> 28:16.872
suicide?

28:16.871 --> 28:17.681
Right?

28:17.680 --> 28:23.690
Okay, let me therefore start
with this one.

28:23.690 --> 28:29.120
Well as I said,
he generally finds that there

28:29.115 --> 28:35.155
is a higher rate of suicide
among Protestants,

28:35.160 --> 28:40.770
and lower rates among
Catholics, and Jews have the

28:40.769 --> 28:47.529
lowest suicide rates among the
Judeo-Christian sphere of the

28:47.525 --> 28:50.515
world;
that's what he studied,

28:50.523 --> 28:52.463
the European countries.

28:52.460 --> 28:57.340
In fact, Islamic suicide rate
is also low.

28:57.338 --> 29:05.758
Well, one possible easy answer
would be that there are stricter

29:05.760 --> 29:13.640
penalties if you are Catholic
and if you commit suicide;

29:13.640 --> 29:15.650
that's why you don't commit
suicide.

29:15.650 --> 29:16.110
Right?

29:16.108 --> 29:18.678
But that's not quite true,
Durkheim argues.

29:18.680 --> 29:19.170
Right?

29:19.170 --> 29:24.070
In fact, all religions are
against suicide;

29:24.069 --> 29:25.949
no religion allows suicide.

29:25.950 --> 29:32.650
Well Roman Catholics may be a
little more rigorous about it.

29:32.650 --> 29:36.090
You do not a get a religious
burial.

29:36.088 --> 29:41.368
I think most Roman Catholic
priests would not bury somebody

29:41.365 --> 29:45.885
who committed suicide,
in most countries,

29:45.890 --> 29:53.140
while Protestant ministers may
perform a burial ceremony.

29:53.140 --> 29:57.560
But I don't think if you commit
suicide that really you are all

29:57.557 --> 30:00.907
that concerned where and how you
will be buried.

30:00.906 --> 30:01.616
Right?

30:01.618 --> 30:05.708
Now, so the question is why?

30:05.708 --> 30:06.728
Right?

30:06.730 --> 30:10.440
The first answer,
that some religions prohibit

30:10.442 --> 30:14.322
suicide more than others is not
very persuasive,

30:14.320 --> 30:17.870
because all religions prohibit
suicide.

30:17.868 --> 30:23.048
Well, and here he comes with
the idea of integration.

30:23.048 --> 30:28.488
He said Protestantism is a less
strongly integrated church than

30:28.493 --> 30:32.273
the Catholic Church--less of a
community.

30:32.269 --> 30:38.469
And Judaism actually even more
tightly integrated,

30:38.465 --> 30:42.255
even more so of a community.

30:42.259 --> 30:47.139
So therefore it leaves
relatively little room for

30:47.135 --> 30:51.395
egoistic suicide,
because the high level of

30:51.404 --> 30:53.034
integration.

30:53.029 --> 30:57.209
And here the rank order is a
relatively low level among

30:57.205 --> 31:02.075
Protestants, higher level among
Catholics, and particularly high

31:02.078 --> 31:03.238
among Jews.

31:03.240 --> 31:12.890
Well how on earth comes
education into the picture?

31:12.890 --> 31:21.340
Well he says as the common and
customary prejudice is

31:21.342 --> 31:30.772
weakening, there is an increase
in the trend of suicide.

31:30.769 --> 31:36.429
Well it's not exactly prejudice
in the most conventional sense

31:36.425 --> 31:39.945
of the term, what he's referring
to.

31:39.950 --> 31:45.580
He's referring here to the
question what we kind of

31:45.580 --> 31:50.420
overcome with education,
generally speaking.

31:50.423 --> 31:51.553
Right?

31:51.548 --> 31:57.898
That if you are becoming more
educated, you will have less of

31:57.904 --> 31:59.924
accepted doctrines.

31:59.915 --> 32:00.865
Right?

32:00.868 --> 32:04.498
Education--right?--is a
critical exercise.

32:04.500 --> 32:05.210
Right?

32:05.210 --> 32:08.110
That's what I was trying to do
in this course--

32:08.108 --> 32:12.018
right?--to challenge
you--right?--to be a critical

32:12.020 --> 32:15.430
theorist--
right?--to subject your own

32:15.431 --> 32:18.791
consciousness to critical
scrutiny,

32:18.788 --> 32:22.848
and to subject the theorists
you have read to critical

32:22.849 --> 32:23.539
scrutiny.

32:23.539 --> 32:24.229
Right?

32:24.230 --> 32:28.660
That's why I asked you in the
test to do-- find a

32:28.663 --> 32:33.843
puzzle--right?--and take sides
in this puzzle--offer some

32:33.836 --> 32:37.436
criticism of some of the
theorists.

32:37.440 --> 32:39.380
That's what education is all
about.

32:39.380 --> 32:42.970
And therefore prejudice as
dogma is declining.

32:42.971 --> 32:43.611
Right?

32:43.608 --> 32:47.928
And if dogma is declining,
there are less given

32:47.931 --> 32:53.471
stereotypes for us we believe
in, then we are more likely to

32:53.473 --> 32:55.263
commit suicide.

32:55.259 --> 32:57.379
This is a kind of
weakening--right?--of the

32:57.384 --> 32:58.604
collective conscience.

32:58.598 --> 33:02.698
It's becoming more of an
individual consciousness;

33:02.700 --> 33:08.930
the critical thinker is
becoming more of an individual

33:08.929 --> 33:10.809
consciousness.

33:10.808 --> 33:15.278
Well and he said well,
they go together with religion,

33:15.281 --> 33:20.261
because Catholics tended to be
less educated and Protestants

33:20.260 --> 33:21.780
more educated.

33:21.778 --> 33:25.088
I don't know how much this
still stands up to scrutiny.

33:25.088 --> 33:30.078
But it's certainly true that
traditionally Protestant

33:30.084 --> 33:35.564
churches did attribute a greater
emphasis to education.

33:35.558 --> 33:43.848
One big reason was the
relationship between believers

33:43.846 --> 33:46.706
and the clergymen.

33:46.714 --> 33:48.154
Right?

33:48.150 --> 33:53.260
In the classical Roman Catholic
theology, the clergyman

33:53.263 --> 33:56.673
interprets the
Bible--right?--for the

33:56.673 --> 33:58.003
believers.

33:58.000 --> 34:04.860
The big--right?--revolution of
Reformation was that they

34:04.864 --> 34:09.294
translated the Bible--
right?--into native

34:09.291 --> 34:13.061
languages--and printing was just
made available--

34:13.059 --> 34:17.149
and started to print the Bible,
and they wanted lay people to

34:17.150 --> 34:18.310
read the Bible.

34:18.309 --> 34:22.829
Well in the Medieval Roman
Catholic Church,

34:22.827 --> 34:26.157
only the priest read the Bible.

34:26.161 --> 34:27.131
Right?

34:27.130 --> 34:32.250
Sort of Protestantism went
together with mass education,

34:32.246 --> 34:37.266
massive public education,
and an emphasis on education:

34:37.269 --> 34:39.319
how to read and write.

34:39.315 --> 34:40.335
Right?

34:40.340 --> 34:45.790
So therefore I think there is a
good claim to be made that on

34:45.786 --> 34:48.776
the long-run,
and generally speaking,

34:48.779 --> 34:52.459
Protestants tended to be more
educated than Catholics.

34:52.460 --> 34:56.370
I doubt whether you would find
much religious differences in

34:56.371 --> 34:58.031
contemporary societies.

34:58.030 --> 35:02.390
But that, in a way,
was simply a correlation

35:02.385 --> 35:05.725
pointing in the same direction.

35:05.730 --> 35:11.040
And he also makes this
point--which is by now utterly

35:11.041 --> 35:16.561
untrue--right?--women are not
less educated in advanced

35:16.559 --> 35:18.909
societies than men.

35:18.909 --> 35:23.169
Women are actually by now more
educated than men,

35:23.166 --> 35:27.946
in the advanced Western
countries, including the United

35:27.954 --> 35:28.574
States.

35:28.574 --> 35:29.554
Right?

35:29.550 --> 35:34.370
In no time you guys,
you really have to work harder

35:34.367 --> 35:39.567
to make sure that you can catch
up with the ladies--

35:39.570 --> 35:43.980
right?--because they will be
better educated than you will

35:43.981 --> 35:44.211
be.

35:44.213 --> 35:44.913
Right?

35:44.909 --> 35:48.869
But anyway, in his times women
were less educated than men,

35:48.869 --> 35:52.009
and they were less likely to
commit suicide.

35:52.010 --> 35:54.070
I think that's also still the
case.

35:54.070 --> 35:57.820
I think women are still less,
generally speaking,

35:57.815 --> 36:00.775
still less likely to commit
suicide.

36:00.780 --> 36:05.540
In fact, I think women are more
likely to attempt suicide,

36:05.538 --> 36:10.628
but completed suicide rate is
much higher among men than among

36:10.630 --> 36:11.130
women.

36:11.130 --> 36:12.050
Right?

36:12.050 --> 36:13.620
That's, I think,
the basic finding.

36:13.619 --> 36:18.099
But anyway, here it's more a
methodological point.

36:18.099 --> 36:22.419
I doubt that whether the
Catholic/Protestant distinction

36:22.420 --> 36:25.800
still stands,
and it certainly doesn't stand

36:25.800 --> 36:26.590
for women.

36:26.585 --> 36:27.445
Right?

36:27.449 --> 36:29.699
Women by now,
in the Western advanced

36:29.704 --> 36:32.004
countries,
in almost every country,

36:32.003 --> 36:34.173
are better educated than men
are,

36:34.170 --> 36:37.850
especially the younger
generation are better educated.

36:37.849 --> 36:41.809
But the methodological point is
interesting.

36:41.811 --> 36:42.551
Right?

36:42.550 --> 36:45.570
As I said, he's beginning to do
multivariate analysis.

36:45.572 --> 36:46.032
Right?

36:46.030 --> 36:49.860
So the dependent variable is
tendency to suicide.

36:49.860 --> 36:52.670
And he has a little regression
model.

36:52.673 --> 36:53.303
Right?

36:53.300 --> 36:58.330
He looks into the regression
model--countries and gender and

36:58.333 --> 37:03.373
education and religion--and
tries to explain the variance in

37:03.367 --> 37:05.157
the suicide rate.

37:05.159 --> 37:10.749
In terms of research design,
this is very beautifully done.

37:10.748 --> 37:11.518
Right?

37:11.518 --> 37:14.628
This is social
science--right?--as we know it

37:14.625 --> 37:15.185
today.

37:15.190 --> 37:20.970
Well, and there is the
Judaistic puzzle.

37:20.972 --> 37:22.162
Right?

37:22.159 --> 37:27.939
Well Jews--I think this
probably is still true--is

37:27.943 --> 37:31.723
better educated than non-Jews.

37:31.719 --> 37:34.769
Again, I would not swear on it.

37:34.768 --> 37:39.538
I really have not looked at
data on religion and education.

37:39.539 --> 37:43.749
But certainly generally has
been true, at that time when

37:43.753 --> 37:48.123
Durkheim was writing about it,
late nineteenth century;

37:48.119 --> 37:52.059
Jews were highly educated,
in Europe in particular,

37:52.063 --> 37:56.563
and by the 1920s and '30s in
the United States as well.

37:56.559 --> 38:02.689
Though they are highly
educated, well they are less

38:02.688 --> 38:05.998
likely to commit suicide.

38:06.000 --> 38:08.680
So there is a
trouble--right?--with his

38:08.681 --> 38:11.571
explanatory
model--right?--what's going on

38:11.574 --> 38:12.214
here.

38:12.210 --> 38:22.660
And then he tries to understand
what is the purpose of learning?

38:22.659 --> 38:26.279
And he said the purpose of
learning among Jews is

38:26.275 --> 38:27.175
different.

38:27.179 --> 38:29.789
And that's the claim.

38:29.789 --> 38:34.389
A Jew seeks to learn,
not in order to replace his

38:34.393 --> 38:39.193
collective prejudices,
but merely to better arm for

38:39.188 --> 38:40.428
the struggle.

38:40.434 --> 38:41.494
Right?

38:41.489 --> 38:47.879
So you read the Talmud. Right?

38:47.880 --> 38:52.520
You go to the rabbi and you go
through all kind of education to

38:52.523 --> 38:55.523
better understand the Holy
Scripture--

38:55.518 --> 38:59.338
right?--and the interpretations
of the Holy Scripture.

38:59.342 --> 38:59.922
Right?

38:59.920 --> 39:03.150
You got a lot of
education--right?--if you are

39:03.146 --> 39:05.936
preparing yourself for your bar
mitzvah.

39:05.942 --> 39:06.662
Right?

39:06.659 --> 39:10.369
You even have to learn
Hebrew--right?--to pass your bar

39:10.371 --> 39:11.061
mitzvah.

39:11.059 --> 39:14.989
You sweat blood probably
meanwhile while doing so.

39:14.987 --> 39:15.627
Right?

39:15.630 --> 39:19.350
But this is not to challenge
the doctrine,

39:19.347 --> 39:22.877
it is to better understand the
doctrine.

39:22.882 --> 39:23.792
Right?

39:23.789 --> 39:26.569
And therefore it doesn't
undermine the collective

39:26.567 --> 39:27.317
conscience.

39:27.320 --> 39:31.670
This education strengthens the
collective conscience.

39:31.670 --> 39:32.340
Right?

39:32.340 --> 39:34.490
I think that's at least
Durkheim's claim.

39:34.489 --> 39:35.719
Very interesting.

39:35.719 --> 39:37.709
Again, I think take it
methodologically.

39:37.710 --> 39:42.350
I think methodological
formidable what this guy is

39:42.347 --> 39:45.377
doing--right?--as early as 1897.

39:45.378 --> 39:46.228
Right?

39:46.230 --> 39:52.950
This is the kind of stuff
today, if any one of you will do

39:52.952 --> 39:56.422
a Ph.D.--
right?--in political science or

39:56.420 --> 40:00.180
economics or sociology,
if you have this kind of

40:00.181 --> 40:03.331
research design,
your mentor will say,

40:03.331 --> 40:04.661
"Go for it.

40:04.659 --> 40:06.869
That's the right way to do
it." Right?

40:06.869 --> 40:08.429
Anyway, so that's.

40:08.429 --> 40:14.619
So well he says education
therefore--it's a very

40:14.617 --> 40:18.037
interesting idea,
right?

40:18.039 --> 40:20.149
He now does a kind of
interaction

40:20.153 --> 40:23.193
effect--right?--between
education and religion,

40:23.193 --> 40:26.103
and he looks at this
interaction effect;

40:26.099 --> 40:28.739
how these two affect each other.

40:28.739 --> 40:33.079
He said it depends what
education is all about.

40:33.079 --> 40:34.019
You know?

40:34.018 --> 40:38.328
Education, if it is weakening
the collective conscience,

40:38.329 --> 40:42.559
makes you just critical of
everything what you learned,

40:42.559 --> 40:49.659
will be a cause of suicide;
otherwise it's actually

40:49.655 --> 40:57.565
important to reinforce you in
society.

40:57.570 --> 40:59.540
And now family and suicide.

40:59.539 --> 41:02.909
This is the point what I did
make.

41:02.911 --> 41:03.731
Right?

41:03.730 --> 41:14.360
In fact, if you are integrated
in a family, you are less likely

41:14.360 --> 41:17.790
to commit suicide.

41:17.789 --> 41:22.139
And he said well there should
be--if that is true--

41:22.139 --> 41:27.849
there should be some evidence
that people who are married will

41:27.849 --> 41:32.719
be less likely to kill
themselves than people who are

41:32.715 --> 41:35.145
unmarried and widowed.

41:35.150 --> 41:38.520
And that is actually the case.

41:38.518 --> 41:45.028
Generally, by the way,
marriage seems to have a health

41:45.034 --> 41:46.264
advantage.

41:46.262 --> 41:47.372
Right?

41:47.369 --> 41:52.999
If you are considering never to
get married, think about your

41:52.998 --> 41:53.658
health.

41:53.655 --> 41:54.495
Right?

41:54.500 --> 42:00.810
If you get married,
statistics will tell you,

42:00.811 --> 42:06.351
you will live longer;
and actually they also tell

42:06.347 --> 42:10.657
you, you will live happier,
than if you stay alone.

42:10.659 --> 42:15.859
Well, and you probably are less
likely to commit suicide.

42:15.860 --> 42:20.400
So that's what he called
matrimonial immunity to suicide.

42:20.400 --> 42:23.250
"Why?" he says.

42:23.250 --> 42:26.860
And it's again incredible what
the guy is doing here.

42:26.855 --> 42:27.405
Right?

42:27.409 --> 42:32.219
He said, well one possible
explanation is that because you

42:32.215 --> 42:35.585
are in a
community--right?--therefore you

42:35.588 --> 42:37.948
will not commit suicide.

42:37.949 --> 42:40.489
"I cannot do to my spouse
to kill myself,

42:40.489 --> 42:44.789
because my spouse will blame
him or herself for my death,

42:44.789 --> 42:48.169
and I don't want to cause harm
to my spouse."

42:48.168 --> 42:48.718
Right?

42:48.719 --> 42:50.539
Therefore I don't commit
suicide.

42:50.539 --> 42:55.439
As I said, young people often
don't commit suicide with

42:55.440 --> 42:57.890
respect to their parents.

42:57.889 --> 43:04.219
But he said--and this is really
extraordinary--he said that it

43:04.224 --> 43:08.174
can be caused by matrimonial
selection.

43:08.170 --> 43:09.210
Right?

43:09.210 --> 43:13.320
People who are more likely to
commit suicide,

43:13.322 --> 43:16.222
to begin with,
may not marry.

43:16.219 --> 43:20.389
Well those of you who took
statistics classes,

43:20.387 --> 43:23.627
you know what he's talking
about;

43:23.630 --> 43:29.730
though at that time this was
not in statistics at all.

43:29.730 --> 43:32.240
It is called the selection
problem.

43:32.239 --> 43:32.829
Right?

43:32.829 --> 43:35.139
This is exactly the selection
problem.

43:35.139 --> 43:40.549
He said we cannot really tell
why people who are married are

43:40.545 --> 43:45.585
less likely to commit suicide,
because it is possible people

43:45.585 --> 43:49.475
with intention to commit suicide
will not get married--

43:49.480 --> 43:53.340
right?--because they are lonely
people to begin with,

43:53.340 --> 43:55.400
and this is why they did not
marry.

43:55.400 --> 43:58.930
So the lower frequency of
suicide among married people is

43:58.925 --> 44:03.595
not the consequence of marriage,
but marriage is the consequence

44:03.597 --> 44:07.257
of people's likelihood not to
commit suicide.

44:07.260 --> 44:11.590
This is the classical example
what is called the sample

44:11.592 --> 44:13.042
selection problem.

44:13.036 --> 44:13.756
Right?

44:13.760 --> 44:17.020
And the only--you know what the
only solution for this is?

44:17.019 --> 44:21.859
Experimental method. Right?

44:21.860 --> 44:24.810
That's the only way how you
could deal with this,

44:24.806 --> 44:26.096
to solve the problem.

44:26.097 --> 44:26.647
Right?

44:26.650 --> 44:31.970
And if you took with Professor
Green a political science

44:31.974 --> 44:35.464
course, you know exactly what I
mean.

44:35.460 --> 44:36.430
Right?

44:36.429 --> 44:39.069
Social scientists really should
do experiment:

44:39.068 --> 44:40.298
random assignments.

44:40.300 --> 44:44.460
You could really come rid of
the problem of this sample

44:44.458 --> 44:48.768
selection bias if you could
randomly assign people to get

44:48.773 --> 44:53.423
married or not to get married,
and then they will get married

44:53.416 --> 44:57.676
or not get married,
and then to see whether it had

44:57.679 --> 44:59.419
an effect or not.

44:59.420 --> 45:02.590
Unfortunately in society we
can't really do random

45:02.590 --> 45:03.370
assignments.

45:03.367 --> 45:03.947
Right?

45:03.949 --> 45:07.249
We hardly can assign people to
get married or not to get

45:07.246 --> 45:10.836
married, and follow it up thirty
years later whether they are

45:10.840 --> 45:11.560
still alive.

45:11.559 --> 45:12.219
Right?

45:12.219 --> 45:13.969
That's the problem.

45:13.969 --> 45:18.569
But otherwise there is--really
statisticians do all kind of big

45:18.574 --> 45:22.514
tricks around this,
but it really cannot be solved.

45:22.510 --> 45:26.180
The real solution would be only
the experimental method.

45:26.179 --> 45:31.279
But what is formidable about
this--right?--that he is well

45:31.280 --> 45:32.980
ahead of himself.

45:32.980 --> 45:36.520
And the whole problem of sample
selection issue,

45:36.523 --> 45:39.393
I came across of this in
statistics.

45:39.389 --> 45:43.239
In the 1980s,
that's when it became a big

45:43.239 --> 45:45.069
thing, the 1980s.

45:45.070 --> 45:49.450
Sample selection model--how you
control for the sample selection

45:49.445 --> 45:50.135
problem.

45:50.139 --> 45:53.589
And he knew about the
problem--not the statistical

45:53.588 --> 45:57.528
one, but the research design
problem--right?--in 1897.

45:57.530 --> 46:02.910
Okay, but he said well there is
still data which supports

46:02.907 --> 46:07.227
actually that matrimonialism has
an effect.

46:07.230 --> 46:11.290
Well society. The same;
that's counterintuitive.

46:11.289 --> 46:15.009
He said if there are great
social disturbances,

46:15.010 --> 46:18.730
then actually social sentiments
are at high.

46:18.730 --> 46:20.110
Revolution, right?

46:20.110 --> 46:22.900
You feel identified with your
country in the revolutionary

46:22.900 --> 46:24.760
cause and you do not commit
suicide;

46:24.760 --> 46:27.630
if otherwise you would have
committed suicide.

46:27.630 --> 46:31.080
Therefore suicide rate will be
going down.

46:31.079 --> 46:36.969
So anyway, this was about
egoistic suicide.

46:36.969 --> 46:41.479
Now let me--I am running out of
time very badly.

46:41.480 --> 46:44.990
Altruistic suicide.

46:44.989 --> 46:49.509
Well altruistic suicide is
happening when social

46:49.514 --> 46:53.974
integration is far too high,
unbearably high,

46:53.969 --> 46:58.929
and that's when people will be
committing what he calls

46:58.929 --> 47:00.949
altruistic suicide.

47:00.949 --> 47:05.959
And this can happen--for
instance he said,

47:05.963 --> 47:10.853
people, old men,
the example what I gave,

47:10.853 --> 47:16.563
old age, commits suicide;
women occasionally on the death

47:16.561 --> 47:20.611
of their husband commits suicide
because they think this is

47:20.605 --> 47:22.135
expected from them.

47:22.139 --> 47:25.869
And traditionally often
followers or servants,

47:25.867 --> 47:29.757
on the death of the chief,
committed suicide.

47:29.760 --> 47:32.870
So we are talking about
altruistic suicide,

47:32.865 --> 47:37.225
because people commit suicide
because they think it is their

47:37.231 --> 47:39.011
duty to kill themselves.

47:39.005 --> 47:39.815
Right?

47:39.820 --> 47:46.340
And this is a sacrifice which
is imposed by society for

47:46.335 --> 47:49.705
something like a social end.

47:49.713 --> 47:50.803
Right?

47:50.800 --> 47:53.060
It can be obligatory in certain
societies.

47:53.059 --> 47:57.779
If you lost a battle and you
were a Japanese

47:57.777 --> 48:03.917
soldier--right?--you committed
hari-kiri, if you were the

48:03.922 --> 48:05.242
general.

48:05.239 --> 48:09.199
Even in the Second World War,
they committed hari-kiri,

48:09.195 --> 48:10.655
killed themselves.

48:10.659 --> 48:18.409
Or it actually can be even kind
of mystical suicide.

48:18.409 --> 48:21.429
For instance,
as you know Hindus occasionally

48:21.427 --> 48:24.717
jump into the Ganges River to
kill themselves.

48:24.719 --> 48:31.459
Well today he said this is a
relatively rare incident.

48:31.460 --> 48:33.460
But it happens in the Army.

48:33.460 --> 48:37.070
He says soldiers kill
themselves, not because they are

48:37.070 --> 48:40.750
not sufficiently integrated but
because they are highly

48:40.748 --> 48:43.298
integrated,
and therefore that

48:43.304 --> 48:46.964
individualism is weak,
and that's why they commit

48:46.960 --> 48:47.550
suicide.

48:47.550 --> 48:52.120
And now about anomic suicide.

48:52.117 --> 48:53.217
Right?

48:53.219 --> 48:58.689
Well you know anomie;
anomie is the lack of social

48:58.690 --> 48:59.620
regulation.

48:59.619 --> 49:04.299
And indeed he said if you find
yourself in ever-changing

49:04.300 --> 49:09.070
situations where value system is
changing, you are likely

49:09.065 --> 49:12.295
to--more likely to commit
suicide.

49:12.300 --> 49:21.870
And well it can be a reason for
economic reasons.

49:21.869 --> 49:25.249
Traditionally institutions
decline.

49:25.250 --> 49:30.360
Suicide during the Great
Depression, as the bank

49:30.362 --> 49:34.992
collapsed, was frequent;
people were jumping out of the

49:34.989 --> 49:35.469
window.

49:35.469 --> 49:39.709
And actually a few of them
happened also last fall,

49:39.708 --> 49:43.098
with the turndown of the stock
market.

49:43.099 --> 49:48.899
And it can be--another good
example is domestic anomie.

49:48.900 --> 49:54.710
Your spouse dies or you get
divorced, and then the suicide

49:54.711 --> 49:56.651
rate is frequent.

49:56.650 --> 49:58.750
And finally fatalistic suicide.

49:58.750 --> 50:03.180
As I pointed out,
Durkheim's notion of fatalism

50:03.179 --> 50:08.089
is a twin concept to Marx's
notion of alienation.

50:08.090 --> 50:11.430
There is too much regulation
and not enough social

50:11.425 --> 50:15.535
integration;
such as the case of slaves or

50:15.539 --> 50:19.899
childless women,
then they tend to commit

50:19.898 --> 50:21.968
suicide as well.

50:21.969 --> 50:26.629
So, so much about Durkheim and
suicide.

50:26.630 --> 50:29.840
And next lecture,
again I will talk to the

50:29.838 --> 50:34.848
questions briefly before we go
on to Durkheim's methodologies.

50:34.849 --> 50:36.479
So do come.

50:36.480 --> 50:37.650
You know?

50:37.650 --> 50:39.450
It'll be helpful for the test.

50:39.449 --> 50:44.089
And I appreciate actually your
class attendance.

50:44.090 --> 50:47.370
It was wonderful all along.

50:47.369 --> 50:52.999