WEBVTT 00:01.420 --> 00:04.550 Professor Shelly Kagan: The first question we want to 00:04.554 --> 00:07.534 discuss has to do with the possibility of my surviving my 00:07.528 --> 00:09.528 death. Is there life after death? 00:09.530 --> 00:14.220 Is there a possibility that I might still exist or survive 00:14.220 --> 00:17.230 after my death? Now at first glance--and in 00:17.232 --> 00:19.862 fact, I think, at second glance it's going to 00:19.859 --> 00:23.379 turn out to be true--you might think that the answer to this 00:23.383 --> 00:26.193 question would depend on two basic issues. 00:26.190 --> 00:27.670 Do I survive my death? 00:27.670 --> 00:29.860 Do we survive our deaths? 00:29.860 --> 00:33.710 You think, the first thing we have to get clear on is well 00:33.709 --> 00:37.479 what am I? What kind of a thing am I? 00:37.480 --> 00:40.560 Or generalizing, what kind of thing is a person? 00:40.560 --> 00:41.730 What are we made of? 00:41.730 --> 00:43.890 What are our parts? 00:43.890 --> 00:48.360 It seems plausible to think that before we could answer the 00:48.359 --> 00:50.439 question, "Do I survive?" 00:50.440 --> 00:53.090 we need to know how I'm built. 00:53.090 --> 00:56.230 And so the first thing we're going to spend a fair bit of 00:56.227 --> 00:59.137 time on is trying to get clear on what's a person? 00:59.140 --> 01:03.190 What are the fundamental building blocks of a person? 01:03.189 --> 01:06.709 The second question that you might think we'd want to get 01:06.714 --> 01:09.994 clear on is, "What's the idea, or what's the concept, 01:09.987 --> 01:13.447 of surviving?" Before we ask, "Do I survive?" 01:13.450 --> 01:15.860 we need to get clear on "What am I?" 01:15.860 --> 01:17.610 and "What is it to survive?" 01:17.610 --> 01:22.940 What is it for something that exists in the future to be me? 01:22.939 --> 01:26.009 Now this question can be discussed philosophically in 01:26.010 --> 01:27.310 quite general terms. 01:27.310 --> 01:31.870 What's the nature of persistence of identity over 01:31.874 --> 01:34.684 time? But since we're especially 01:34.678 --> 01:38.788 interested in beings like us, people, this topic, 01:38.790 --> 01:42.430 this sub-specialized version of the question of identity, 01:42.432 --> 01:45.492 gets discussed under the rubric of the topic, 01:45.490 --> 01:46.480 personal identity. 01:46.480 --> 01:50.860 What's the key or the nature or the basis of personal identity? 01:50.860 --> 01:55.430 As we might put it: What is it for somebody who's 01:55.427 --> 01:59.707 here next week to be the same person as me? 01:59.709 --> 02:01.459 What's the nature of personal identity? 02:01.459 --> 02:05.099 So, as I say, at first glance you might think 02:05.100 --> 02:09.570 to get clear on the answer, "Do I or might I or could I 02:09.569 --> 02:11.389 survive my death?" 02:11.390 --> 02:13.920 we need to know, what am I? 02:13.920 --> 02:16.450 What's a person? What's the metaphysical 02:16.453 --> 02:19.053 composition of people, on the one hand? 02:19.050 --> 02:21.610 And we need to get clear on the nature of identity or 02:21.611 --> 02:23.241 persistence or, more specifically, 02:23.236 --> 02:24.316 personal identity. 02:24.319 --> 02:26.579 Now as I say, I believe that when push comes 02:26.583 --> 02:29.323 to shove, we do need to get clear about both of those 02:29.321 --> 02:32.641 questions and so that's going to take the first several weeks of 02:32.637 --> 02:35.347 the class. We're going to spend a couple 02:35.348 --> 02:38.118 of weeks talking about, "What's a person?" 02:38.120 --> 02:40.590 And then we're going to spend several weeks, 02:40.586 --> 02:43.566 or at least a week or so, talking about the nature of 02:43.568 --> 02:44.828 personal identity. 02:44.830 --> 02:49.130 But before we can even get started, there's a question, 02:49.133 --> 02:52.803 really an objection to the whole enterprise. 02:52.800 --> 02:55.310 So we're about to spend a lot of time asking the philosophical 02:55.307 --> 02:56.867 question: Is there life after death? 02:56.870 --> 02:58.970 Could there be life after death? 02:58.970 --> 03:01.250 Might I survive my death? 03:01.250 --> 03:03.800 But there's a philosophical objection to the entire 03:03.799 --> 03:06.209 question. And the objection is fairly 03:06.211 --> 03:09.541 simple. It says the whole question is 03:09.538 --> 03:13.828 misconceived. It's based on a confusion. 03:13.830 --> 03:18.620 Once we see the confusion, we can see what the answer to 03:18.621 --> 03:21.941 our question is. Could I survive my death? 03:21.939 --> 03:25.289 The answer has got to be--this is what the objection says--the 03:25.291 --> 03:27.381 answer has got to be, obviously not. 03:27.379 --> 03:29.639 All right, so here's the objection. 03:29.639 --> 03:33.689 I should mention that the very first reading that you're going 03:33.692 --> 03:37.082 to be doing is a couple of pages from Jay Rosenberg, 03:37.080 --> 03:39.140 a contemporary philosopher. 03:39.139 --> 03:42.279 He gives us a version of this objection. 03:42.280 --> 03:44.360 So I'll give you one version. 03:44.360 --> 03:47.090 You'll have another version in your readings. 03:47.090 --> 03:51.150 The objection basically says: What does it mean to say that 03:51.150 --> 03:53.040 somebody's died? We're asking, 03:53.038 --> 03:54.438 "Is there life after death?" 03:54.440 --> 03:56.640 What does it mean to say that somebody has died? 03:56.639 --> 04:02.189 Well a natural definition of death might be something like 04:02.187 --> 04:05.127 the end of life. So then, if that's right, 04:05.134 --> 04:07.144 then to ask, "Is there life after death?" 04:07.139 --> 04:12.119 is just asking, "Is there life after the end of 04:12.123 --> 04:14.823 life?" The answer to that ought to be 04:14.822 --> 04:17.462 pretty obvious. Well, obviously, 04:17.460 --> 04:20.160 the answer to that is no. 04:20.160 --> 04:24.540 After all, if we're saying once you've run out of life, 04:24.541 --> 04:26.571 is there any more life? 04:26.570 --> 04:29.050 Well, duh! That's like asking, 04:29.047 --> 04:33.497 when I've eaten up all the food on my plate, is there any food 04:33.500 --> 04:34.960 left on my plate? 04:34.959 --> 04:39.219 Or what happens in the movie after the movie ends? 04:39.220 --> 04:43.340 These are stupid questions, because once you understand 04:43.339 --> 04:47.229 what they're asking, the answer is just built in. 04:47.230 --> 04:48.550 It follows trivially. 04:48.550 --> 04:51.440 So although it has seemed to people over the ages that the 04:51.441 --> 04:53.471 question, "Is there life after death?" 04:53.470 --> 04:57.310 is one of the great mysteries, one of the great philosophical 04:57.305 --> 05:00.115 things to ponder, the objection says that's a 05:00.117 --> 05:01.457 kind of illusion. 05:01.459 --> 05:04.749 In fact, once you think about it, and not all that long, 05:04.754 --> 05:07.154 you can see the answer's got to be no. 05:07.149 --> 05:09.529 There couldn't possibly be life after death. 05:09.529 --> 05:13.939 There couldn't possibly be life after the end of life. 05:13.939 --> 05:16.929 Or suppose we ask the question in a slightly different way. 05:16.930 --> 05:21.400 Might I survive my death? 05:21.399 --> 05:24.509 Well what does the word "survive" mean? 05:24.509 --> 05:28.439 Well, survive is something like we say that somebody's a 05:28.443 --> 05:32.523 survivor if something's happened and they haven't died. 05:32.520 --> 05:34.400 They're still alive. 05:34.399 --> 05:38.469 When there's a car accident, you ask, so-and-so died, 05:38.467 --> 05:40.107 so-and-so survived. 05:40.110 --> 05:41.350 This person survived. 05:41.350 --> 05:44.890 To say that they survived is just saying that they're still 05:44.891 --> 05:49.401 alive. So, "Might I survive my death?" 05:49.399 --> 05:53.449 is like asking, "Might I still be alive 05:53.447 --> 05:56.427 after"--well what's death? 05:56.430 --> 05:57.660 Death is the end of life. 05:57.660 --> 06:02.910 So-- "might I still be alive after I've stopped living? 06:02.910 --> 06:06.990 Might I be one of the people who didn't die when I died?" 06:06.990 --> 06:09.820 Gosh, the answer to that is, again, duh! 06:09.820 --> 06:11.840 No. You couldn't possibly survive 06:11.842 --> 06:13.932 your death, given the very definition. 06:13.930 --> 06:18.530 It should remind us of--at least it reminds me of this joke 06:18.528 --> 06:20.508 that you probably told. 06:20.509 --> 06:23.809 It seemed hysterical when you were seven. 06:23.810 --> 06:30.090 The plane crashes exactly on the border of Canada and the 06:30.094 --> 06:33.734 United States. Exactly on the border. 06:33.730 --> 06:35.960 There's dead people everywhere. 06:35.959 --> 06:39.639 Where do they bury the survivors? 06:39.639 --> 06:42.849 The answer is: You don't bury the survivors. 06:42.850 --> 06:44.080 So when you're seven you think, "I don't know. 06:44.080 --> 06:45.170 Do they bury them in Canada? 06:45.170 --> 06:47.000 Do they bury them in America?" 06:47.000 --> 06:50.240 The answer is: You don't bury the survivors, 06:50.238 --> 06:54.228 because survivors are people that haven't yet died. 06:54.230 --> 06:56.650 So, "Can I survive my death?" 06:56.649 --> 06:59.559 is like asking, "Could I not have yet died 06:59.558 --> 07:01.358 after…?" The answer is, 07:01.355 --> 07:05.335 of course, you have to have died if you died and you haven't 07:05.337 --> 07:07.157 survived if you've died. 07:07.160 --> 07:10.490 So the question can't even get off the ground. 07:10.490 --> 07:13.630 That, at least, is how the objection goes. 07:13.629 --> 07:17.159 Now I don't mean to be utterly dismissive of the objection. 07:17.160 --> 07:20.410 That's why I spent a couple of minutes trying to spell it out. 07:20.410 --> 07:25.970 But I think there's a way to respond to it. 07:25.970 --> 07:29.020 We just have to get clearer about what precisely the 07:29.024 --> 07:31.364 question is that we're trying to ask. 07:31.360 --> 07:33.800 This is something that Rosenberg tries to get clear on 07:33.799 --> 07:35.909 as well. So here's my attempt to make 07:35.910 --> 07:39.330 the question both a bit more precise, and a question that's 07:39.330 --> 07:40.510 an open question. 07:40.509 --> 07:44.179 A question we can legitimately raise. 07:44.180 --> 07:47.090 Well, now as you will hear on several occasions over the 07:47.091 --> 07:49.421 course of the semester, I'm a philosopher. 07:49.420 --> 07:52.930 What that means is I don't really know a whole lot of 07:52.930 --> 07:55.110 facts. So I'm about to tell you a 07:55.112 --> 07:57.452 story where I wish I knew the facts. 07:57.450 --> 07:58.940 I don't know the facts. 07:58.940 --> 08:05.440 If I could really do it right, I'd now open the door and bring 08:05.437 --> 08:09.807 in our guest physiologist, who would then provide the 08:09.810 --> 08:12.220 facts that I'm--what I'm about to go is "blah, 08:12.217 --> 08:15.037 blah, blah." But we have the physiologist 08:15.035 --> 08:18.485 come in and he'd actually tell us these things. 08:18.490 --> 08:19.540 I don't know them. 08:19.540 --> 08:20.580 I don't have that person. 08:20.579 --> 08:25.459 But take a look at what happens when a body dies. 08:25.459 --> 08:27.619 Now, no doubt, you can kill people in a lot of 08:27.615 --> 08:30.515 different ways. You can poison them, 08:30.522 --> 08:35.442 you can strangle them, you can shoot them in the 08:35.438 --> 08:39.018 heart. The causal paths that result in 08:39.020 --> 08:43.190 death may start different, but I presume that they 08:43.194 --> 08:48.394 converge and you end up having a set of events take place. 08:48.390 --> 08:50.260 Now what are those events? 08:50.259 --> 08:53.559 This is exactly where I don't really know the details, 08:53.563 --> 08:57.123 but I take it it's something like: because of whatever the 08:57.116 --> 09:00.326 original input was, eventually the blood's no 09:00.332 --> 09:04.612 longer circulating and oxygen isn't making its way around the 09:04.609 --> 09:06.729 body. So the brain becomes 09:06.730 --> 09:09.960 oxygen-starved. Because of the lack of oxygen 09:09.956 --> 09:13.516 getting to the cells, the cells are no longer able to 09:13.518 --> 09:16.668 carry on their various metabolic processes. 09:16.669 --> 09:19.589 Because of this, they can't repair the various 09:19.589 --> 09:23.159 kinds of damage they need, or create the amino acids and 09:23.157 --> 09:24.647 proteins they need. 09:24.649 --> 09:28.329 So as decay begins to set in and the cell structures begin to 09:28.332 --> 09:31.832 break down, they don't get repaired as they would normally 09:31.830 --> 09:33.430 do, and so eventually have 09:33.431 --> 09:35.991 breakdown of the crucial cell structure and boom, 09:35.988 --> 09:37.788 the body's dead. Now as I say, 09:37.788 --> 09:40.398 I don't really know whether that's accurate, 09:40.396 --> 09:43.976 the little rough story I just told, but some story like that 09:43.975 --> 09:45.365 is probably right. 09:45.370 --> 09:49.700 And in typical philosophical fashion, I've drawn that story 09:49.703 --> 09:52.023 for you up here on the board. 09:52.019 --> 09:56.129 So the events that I don't really know the details of, 09:56.125 --> 09:59.605 we can just call B_1, B_2, 09:59.611 --> 10:03.021 B_3, up through B_n. 10:03.019 --> 10:06.769 Before B_1 begins, you've got the body working, 10:06.774 --> 10:09.664 functioning, in its bodily way--respirating, 10:09.657 --> 10:13.007 reproducing the cells, and so forth and so on. 10:13.009 --> 10:18.239 And at the end of the process, by B_n, 10:18.237 --> 10:21.857 the body's dead. B for bodily. 10:21.860 --> 10:24.240 B_1 through B_n; 10:24.240 --> 10:25.320 that's what death is. 10:25.320 --> 10:27.490 At least, that's what death of the body is. 10:27.490 --> 10:30.950 As I say, it's the sort of thing that somebody from the 10:30.947 --> 10:34.727 medical school or a biologist or a physiologist or something 10:34.725 --> 10:36.385 could describe for us. 10:36.390 --> 10:38.130 So here's the question then. 10:38.129 --> 10:45.309 Suppose we call that process "death of the body." 10:45.309 --> 10:50.899 Call what has occurred by the end of that sequence of events, 10:50.904 --> 10:54.344 "bodily death." Now here's a question that we 10:54.336 --> 10:57.136 can still ask, at least it looks as though we 10:57.136 --> 10:58.406 can still ask it. 10:58.409 --> 11:05.169 Might I, or do I, still exist after the death of 11:05.171 --> 11:10.531 my body? Might I still exist after 11:10.526 --> 11:14.486 bodily death? I don't mean to suggest in any 11:14.486 --> 11:17.426 way that we yet know the answer to that question, 11:17.429 --> 11:20.629 but at least that's a question that it seems as though we can 11:20.627 --> 11:21.637 coherently raise. 11:21.639 --> 11:26.129 There's no obvious contradiction in asking: 11:26.126 --> 11:31.356 Might I still exist after the death of my body? 11:31.360 --> 11:34.900 11:34.899 --> 11:38.609 The answer could turn out to be no. 11:38.610 --> 11:42.750 But at least it's not obviously no. 11:42.750 --> 11:46.490 If the answer turns out to be no, it's going to take some 11:46.488 --> 11:50.158 sustained argument to settle it one way or the other. 11:50.159 --> 11:54.069 The answer could turn out to be yes, for all we know at this 11:54.069 --> 11:56.599 point. This just brings us back to the 11:56.596 --> 12:00.196 thought that whether or not I could still exist after the 12:00.202 --> 12:04.132 death of my body looks like it should depend on what I am. 12:04.129 --> 12:07.059 So in a minute, that's the question that I'm 12:07.056 --> 12:08.346 going to turn to. 12:08.350 --> 12:12.490 But it's a bit cumbersome to constantly be asking: 12:12.490 --> 12:16.630 Might I still exist after the death of my body? 12:16.629 --> 12:19.719 So no harm is done, once we've clarified the 12:19.719 --> 12:23.599 question that we're trying to ask, if we summarize that 12:23.598 --> 12:26.758 question in a bit of a jargon or slogan. 12:26.759 --> 12:29.489 We say, instead of asking: Might I survive? 12:29.490 --> 12:31.630 Or: Might I continue to exist after the death of my body? 12:31.630 --> 12:34.790 --you might put it this way. 12:34.789 --> 12:38.979 You might say for short: Will I survive the death of my 12:38.977 --> 12:40.477 body? No harm done. 12:40.480 --> 12:44.250 Or: Will I survive my death? 12:44.250 --> 12:47.130 Because what we were just stipulating we mean when we talk 12:47.126 --> 12:50.356 about my death in the context of this question is the death of my 12:50.355 --> 12:51.485 body. No harm done. 12:51.490 --> 12:55.830 We can just say for short: Will I survive my death or 12:55.834 --> 12:58.094 might I survive my death? 12:58.090 --> 13:02.460 For that matter, no serious harm done if we ask: 13:02.457 --> 13:05.057 Is there life after death? 13:05.059 --> 13:08.599 As long as we understand that what we're not asking about 13:08.595 --> 13:10.295 there is life of my body. 13:10.299 --> 13:13.169 Just another familiar way of trying to ask: 13:13.173 --> 13:15.913 Will I still be around after my death? 13:15.909 --> 13:18.369 Will I still exist after my death? 13:18.370 --> 13:22.930 So I think there's a perfectly legitimate question and that's 13:22.931 --> 13:25.821 the question we now want to turn to. 13:25.820 --> 13:28.820 As I said, it looks as though to answer the question, 13:28.816 --> 13:31.516 "Could I continue to exist after the death of my 13:31.524 --> 13:33.834 body?"--"Is there life after death?" 13:33.830 --> 13:35.690 "Could I survive my death?" 13:35.690 --> 13:39.250 for short--to answer that question, we need to get clearer 13:39.252 --> 13:42.442 about: What exactly is it for something to be me? 13:42.440 --> 13:45.650 That's a question we'll turn to in a couple of weeks. 13:45.649 --> 13:51.199 First, we've got to get clearer about: What am I? 13:51.200 --> 13:55.250 What kind of an entity am I? 13:55.250 --> 13:56.680 What am I made of? 13:56.679 --> 13:59.419 In philosophical jargon, this is a question from 13:59.422 --> 14:01.912 metaphysics. So we're asking the 14:01.909 --> 14:06.039 metaphysical question: What kind of a thing is a 14:06.041 --> 14:08.891 person? It seems plausible to think 14:08.890 --> 14:13.270 that whether or not a person can survive or continue to exist 14:13.270 --> 14:17.580 after the death of his or her body should depend on how he's 14:17.577 --> 14:20.277 built, what he's made of, 14:20.275 --> 14:23.115 what his or her parts are. 14:23.120 --> 14:30.380 So, let me sketch for you two basic positions on this 14:30.375 --> 14:33.135 question. What is a person? 14:33.140 --> 14:36.010 Two basic positions. 14:36.009 --> 14:40.139 They're both, I imagine, fairly familiar. 14:40.139 --> 14:43.679 What we're going to have to do is try to decide between them. 14:43.679 --> 14:46.979 They're not the only possible positions on the question of the 14:46.976 --> 14:48.486 metaphysics of the person. 14:48.490 --> 14:50.820 But they're, I think, the two most prominent 14:50.823 --> 14:54.083 positions and definitely the ones most worth taking seriously 14:54.080 --> 14:55.220 for our purposes. 14:55.220 --> 14:59.550 So, first possible position is this. 14:59.549 --> 15:09.969 A person is a combination of a body and something else--a mind. 15:09.970 --> 15:13.260 But the crucial thing about this first view that we want to 15:13.256 --> 15:16.766 talk about is that the mind is thought of as something separate 15:16.769 --> 15:22.479 from, and distinct from, the body. 15:22.480 --> 15:25.710 To use a common enough word, it's a soul. 15:25.710 --> 15:29.210 So people are, or people have, 15:29.206 --> 15:34.146 or people consist of, bodies and souls. 15:34.149 --> 15:38.079 The soul is something, as I say, distinct from the 15:38.078 --> 15:40.428 body. I take it the idea of the body 15:40.433 --> 15:41.573 is a familiar one. 15:41.570 --> 15:45.710 It's this lump of flesh and bone and muscle that's sitting 15:45.711 --> 15:49.931 here in front of you and that each one of you sort of drags 15:49.926 --> 15:53.786 around with you. It's the sort of thing that we 15:53.794 --> 15:58.794 can put on a scale and prod with a stick and the biologists can 15:58.785 --> 16:01.015 study, presumably made up of various 16:01.023 --> 16:03.113 kinds of molecules, atoms and so forth. 16:03.110 --> 16:05.660 So we've got the body. 16:05.659 --> 16:10.639 But on this first view, we also have something that's 16:10.637 --> 16:14.047 not body. Something that's not a material 16:14.050 --> 16:16.550 object. Something that's not composed 16:16.553 --> 16:18.123 of molecules and atoms. 16:18.120 --> 16:21.370 It's a soul. It's the house of, 16:21.370 --> 16:24.250 or the seat of, or the basis of, 16:24.247 --> 16:28.977 consciousness and thinking, perhaps personality. 16:28.980 --> 16:33.320 But the crucial point for this view is that the proper 16:33.319 --> 16:38.069 metaphysical understanding of the mind is to think of it in 16:38.068 --> 16:42.448 nonphysical terms, nonmaterial terms. 16:42.450 --> 16:45.270 That, as I say, is the first basic view. 16:45.269 --> 16:47.819 I'm going to say more about that view, a fair bit more about 16:47.815 --> 16:49.665 that view, over the next couple of weeks. 16:49.669 --> 16:52.539 First, let me sketch the other basic view. 16:52.539 --> 16:57.359 So this first view we can call "the dualist view." 16:57.360 --> 17:01.240 Dualist, of course, because there's two basic 17:01.237 --> 17:04.407 components--the body and the soul. 17:04.410 --> 17:07.790 Although I may occasionally slip, I'm going to try to 17:07.793 --> 17:09.553 preserve the word "soul." 17:09.549 --> 17:13.909 When I use the word "soul," I'm going to have in mind this 17:13.906 --> 17:17.876 dualist view according to which the soul is something 17:17.880 --> 17:20.020 immaterial, nonphysical. 17:20.019 --> 17:23.399 Some other kind--the body is a material substance. 17:23.400 --> 17:27.900 The soul is an immaterial substance. 17:27.900 --> 17:29.090 That's the dualist view. 17:29.089 --> 17:33.659 The alternative view that we're going to consider is not 17:33.661 --> 17:35.491 dualist, but monist. 17:35.490 --> 17:41.640 It says there's one basic kind of thing and only one basic kind 17:41.639 --> 17:44.839 of thing. There are bodies. 17:44.840 --> 17:46.400 So what's a person? 17:46.400 --> 17:52.440 A person is just a certain kind of material object. 17:52.440 --> 17:55.620 A person is just a body. 17:55.619 --> 18:01.379 Of course, it's a very fancy material object. 18:01.380 --> 18:04.810 It's a very amazing material object. 18:04.809 --> 18:07.479 That's what this second view says. 18:07.480 --> 18:13.290 The person is a body that can do things that most other 18:13.288 --> 18:16.298 material objects can't do. 18:16.299 --> 18:20.689 So on the monist view--which we'll call "physicalism," 18:20.687 --> 18:24.327 because it says that what people just are, 18:24.329 --> 18:28.619 are these physical objects--on the physicalist view, 18:28.615 --> 18:33.905 a person is just a body that can…now you fill in the blank. 18:33.910 --> 18:36.440 You point out the kinds of things that we can do. 18:36.440 --> 18:39.600 We can talk. We can think. 18:39.600 --> 18:41.400 We can sing. We can write poetry. 18:41.400 --> 18:42.630 We can fall in love. 18:42.630 --> 18:44.340 We can be afraid. 18:44.340 --> 18:45.440 We can make plans. 18:45.440 --> 18:48.970 We can discover things about the universe. 18:48.970 --> 18:52.770 According to the physicalist view, a person is just a body 18:52.768 --> 18:55.898 that can do all of those things: can reflect, 18:55.900 --> 18:58.690 can be rational, can communicate, 18:58.693 --> 19:01.493 can make plans, can fall in love, 19:01.486 --> 19:03.316 can write poetry. 19:03.320 --> 19:04.910 That's the physicalist view. 19:04.910 --> 19:08.650 As I say, we've got two basic positions. 19:08.650 --> 19:13.180 There's the dualist view--people are bodies and 19:13.181 --> 19:15.931 souls. And there's the physicalist 19:15.931 --> 19:19.201 view, according to which there are no souls. 19:19.200 --> 19:23.820 There are no immaterial objects like that. 19:23.819 --> 19:26.789 There are only bodies, though when you've got a 19:26.785 --> 19:30.065 functioning body like ours, so the physicalist says, 19:30.072 --> 19:33.362 these bodies can do some pretty amazing things. 19:33.359 --> 19:36.659 The kind of things that we all know people can do. 19:36.660 --> 19:39.220 Two basic views. From a logical point of view, 19:39.218 --> 19:41.828 I suppose you might have a third possible view. 19:41.829 --> 19:46.299 If we've got the monist who says there's bodies but there's 19:46.295 --> 19:50.445 no souls, you could imagine somebody who says there are 19:50.452 --> 19:53.072 souls but there are no bodies. 19:53.069 --> 19:55.849 This would roughly be a view according to which there are 19:55.854 --> 19:58.344 minds, but there aren't really physical objects. 19:58.339 --> 20:01.319 Physical objects are a kind of illusion, perhaps, 20:01.318 --> 20:02.558 that we fall into. 20:02.559 --> 20:05.919 Or thinking about them in materialistic terms might be 20:05.922 --> 20:07.892 greatly confused or mistaken. 20:07.890 --> 20:12.130 This view is sometimes known in philosophy as idealism: 20:12.128 --> 20:15.658 all that exists, are minds and their ideas. 20:15.660 --> 20:19.850 Physical objects is just a way of talking about the ideas the 20:19.853 --> 20:22.233 mind has or something like that. 20:22.230 --> 20:25.470 Idealism is a position that's got a very long history in 20:25.473 --> 20:29.193 philosophy and for many classes would be worth taking a fair bit 20:29.189 --> 20:31.489 of time to consider more carefully. 20:31.490 --> 20:34.030 But for our purposes, I think it's not a contender. 20:34.029 --> 20:37.169 So I'm just going to put it aside. 20:37.170 --> 20:39.860 The positions that I'm going to--and there are other 20:39.862 --> 20:41.132 possibilities as well. 20:41.130 --> 20:46.180 There are views where mind and body are just two different ways 20:46.179 --> 20:50.249 of looking at the same underlying reality where the 20:50.251 --> 20:54.651 underlying reality is neither physical nor mental. 20:54.650 --> 20:57.770 That view's also worth taking seriously in a metaphysics 20:57.765 --> 21:01.215 class, but for our purposes, I mention it and put it aside. 21:01.220 --> 21:04.660 The two views we are going to focus on are, 21:04.664 --> 21:08.364 on the one hand, the dualist view--people have 21:08.355 --> 21:13.845 souls as well as bodies--and the physicalist view--all we have, 21:13.850 --> 21:15.890 all we are, are bodies. 21:15.890 --> 21:19.650 21:19.650 --> 21:25.340 Let me say something more then about the dualist position. 21:25.339 --> 21:28.879 According to the dualist, the mind is this immaterial 21:28.875 --> 21:32.405 substance and we could call it by different names. 21:32.410 --> 21:35.380 No harm would be done if we call it a mind, 21:35.382 --> 21:39.212 though the reason I will typically talk about a soul is 21:39.205 --> 21:43.235 to try to flag the crucial point of the dualist view. 21:43.240 --> 21:49.060 The mind is based in, or just is something 21:49.064 --> 21:55.884 nonphysical, something nonmaterial…The soul can 21:55.884 --> 22:03.844 direct and give orders to the body, on the one hand. 22:03.839 --> 22:09.719 On the other hand, the body generates input that 22:09.720 --> 22:15.350 eventually gets sensed or felt by the soul. 22:15.349 --> 22:23.819 You take a pin and you stick it through my flesh of my body and 22:23.817 --> 22:28.867 I feel pain in my soul, in my mind. 22:28.870 --> 22:31.210 So, two-way interaction. 22:31.210 --> 22:34.640 As always with philosophy, there's more complicated 22:34.636 --> 22:38.676 versions of dualism where maybe the interaction doesn't work 22:38.680 --> 22:42.830 both ways, but let's just limit ourselves 22:42.831 --> 22:48.791 to good, old-fashioned, two-way interactionist dualism. 22:48.790 --> 22:52.290 So my mind controls my body. 22:52.289 --> 22:56.179 My body can affect my mind in various ways. 22:56.180 --> 22:59.380 But for all that, they're separate things. 22:59.380 --> 23:02.040 Still there's this very tight connection. 23:02.040 --> 23:07.790 23:07.789 --> 23:11.469 We sometimes put it: the soul is in the body, 23:11.465 --> 23:16.305 though talking about spatial locations here may be somewhat 23:16.310 --> 23:18.650 metaphorically intended. 23:18.650 --> 23:21.790 It's not as though we think that if you start opening up the 23:21.791 --> 23:24.241 body you'd finally find the particular spot. 23:24.240 --> 23:27.990 Here's the place where the soul is located. 23:27.990 --> 23:30.960 Though it does seem, from this dualist perspective, 23:30.956 --> 23:34.336 as though souls are located, I'm sort of viewing the world 23:34.339 --> 23:36.229 from here. Just like each of you is 23:36.232 --> 23:38.272 viewing the world from a particular location. 23:38.269 --> 23:41.699 So maybe your soul is located, more or less, 23:41.698 --> 23:44.168 in the vicinity of your body. 23:44.170 --> 23:47.290 Crucial point, of course, the attraction of 23:47.292 --> 23:50.492 the dualist view, from our point of view, 23:50.490 --> 23:54.340 is that if there's a soul as well as the body, 23:54.336 --> 23:57.666 and the soul is something immaterial, 23:57.670 --> 24:00.350 then when the body dies, when we have B_1 24:00.347 --> 24:03.397 through B_n and the death of the body occurs. 24:03.400 --> 24:06.660 So at the end of B_n, the body stops repairing 24:06.657 --> 24:08.697 itself. Decay sets in. 24:08.700 --> 24:10.550 We all know the sad story. 24:10.549 --> 24:12.919 The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out. 24:12.920 --> 24:16.840 At the end of the day--well it maybe it takes longer than a 24:16.836 --> 24:18.926 day--the body has decomposed. 24:18.930 --> 24:24.300 Yes, all that bespeaks the end of the body. 24:24.299 --> 24:29.459 But if the soul is something immaterial, then that could 24:29.460 --> 24:33.870 continue to exist, even after the destruction of 24:33.870 --> 24:36.920 the body. That's the attraction, 24:36.916 --> 24:40.736 at least one of the attractions, of the dualist 24:40.735 --> 24:43.745 view. The belief in the soul gives 24:43.750 --> 24:48.370 you something to continue to exist after the end of your 24:48.368 --> 24:51.048 body. So what's death? 24:51.049 --> 24:58.249 Well, if normally there's this super tight connection between 24:58.254 --> 25:04.264 my soul and my body, death might be the severing of 25:04.258 --> 25:08.818 that connection. So the body breaks and no 25:08.820 --> 25:12.710 longer is able to give input up to the soul. 25:12.710 --> 25:17.780 The soul is no longer able to control the body and make it 25:17.775 --> 25:20.555 move around. But for all that, 25:20.559 --> 25:23.639 the soul might continue to exist. 25:23.640 --> 25:28.310 And so at least the possibility that I'll survive my death is 25:28.308 --> 25:31.888 one worth taking very, very seriously if we are 25:31.888 --> 25:32.898 dualists. 25:32.900 --> 25:36.560 25:36.559 --> 25:41.749 A couple of things to point out about this view. 25:41.750 --> 25:47.640 One is I've been talking as though a person is a 25:47.642 --> 25:53.662 combination, kind of a soul and body sandwich. 25:53.660 --> 25:57.210 25:57.210 --> 26:01.610 So a person has two basic building blocks. 26:01.609 --> 26:04.479 The bodily part and the soul part. 26:04.480 --> 26:08.610 It's natural to talk that way, but if we want belief in the 26:08.607 --> 26:12.807 soul to help us hold out the possibility at least that there 26:12.805 --> 26:17.075 might be life after death, then I think we need to 26:17.079 --> 26:22.469 actually say that strictly speaking, it's not that a person 26:22.474 --> 26:24.804 is a soul plus a body. 26:24.799 --> 26:28.639 Strictly speaking, I think we need to say the 26:28.640 --> 26:30.910 person just is the soul. 26:30.910 --> 26:36.200 After all, if the person is the combination, if the person is 26:36.199 --> 26:40.259 the pair, soul plus the body, destroy the body, 26:40.255 --> 26:42.895 you've destroyed the pair. 26:42.900 --> 26:47.620 If the person is the pair and the pair no longer exists, 26:47.623 --> 26:50.203 the person no longer exists. 26:50.200 --> 26:55.030 So if we want belief in a soul to help us leave open the door 26:55.034 --> 26:59.384 to the possibility that I survive the destruction of my 26:59.384 --> 27:02.404 body, it had better not be that the 27:02.397 --> 27:04.997 body is an essential part of me. 27:05.000 --> 27:09.770 It's simpler, more straightforward to say 27:09.773 --> 27:15.863 instead, "What I am strictly speaking is a soul." 27:15.859 --> 27:18.089 As long as the soul exists, I exist. 27:18.090 --> 27:21.470 27:21.470 --> 27:26.500 Of course, my soul, me, I, have a very tight 27:26.501 --> 27:30.481 connection to a particular body. 27:30.480 --> 27:32.290 But still, you could, in principle, 27:32.288 --> 27:34.468 destroy the body without destroying me. 27:34.470 --> 27:38.750 Look, I have a particularly close connection to the house I 27:38.751 --> 27:41.051 live in. But for all that, 27:41.051 --> 27:45.461 you can destroy my house without destroying me. 27:45.460 --> 27:49.580 So that's I think the position that we ought to ascribe to the 27:49.575 --> 27:51.255 dualist. The person is, 27:51.256 --> 27:53.336 strictly speaking, the soul. 27:53.339 --> 27:56.119 The soul has a very intimate connection with the body, 27:56.123 --> 27:58.543 but the person is not the soul and the body. 27:58.540 --> 28:00.190 The person is just the soul. 28:00.190 --> 28:04.020 So even if that intimate connection gets destroyed, 28:04.021 --> 28:07.701 the person, the soul, could continue to exist. 28:07.700 --> 28:12.210 The second point to clear up is that there's really three 28:12.208 --> 28:15.588 different issues that might interest us. 28:15.589 --> 28:21.319 One, metaphysically, are bodies and souls distinct? 28:21.319 --> 28:28.329 Is the mind to be understood in terms of this immaterial object, 28:28.326 --> 28:30.836 the soul? So are there two kinds of 28:30.837 --> 28:32.487 things? That's the first question. 28:32.490 --> 28:36.250 Are souls and bodies distinct? 28:36.250 --> 28:41.650 Second question, though, is: Does the soul, 28:41.646 --> 28:47.806 even if it exists, survive the destruction of the 28:47.813 --> 28:51.113 body? It could be something separate 28:51.106 --> 28:52.456 without surviving. 28:52.460 --> 28:56.330 That's why I've tried to say if there are souls, 28:56.330 --> 29:01.190 at least that opens the door to the possibility that we will 29:01.188 --> 29:02.998 survive our death. 29:03.000 --> 29:07.010 But, it doesn't guarantee it, because absent further 29:07.011 --> 29:10.391 argumentation, there's no guarantee that the 29:10.393 --> 29:13.543 soul survives the death of the body. 29:13.539 --> 29:16.609 Even if it's separate, it could be that it gets killed 29:16.609 --> 29:19.799 at the very same time or destroyed at the very same time 29:19.795 --> 29:21.875 that the body's being destroyed. 29:21.880 --> 29:27.470 Maybe when these physical processes, B_1 through 29:27.465 --> 29:30.205 B_n, take place, 29:30.210 --> 29:33.570 they set into motion--remember, after all we're interactionist 29:33.565 --> 29:36.105 dualists. There's this very tight causal 29:36.108 --> 29:39.988 connection between the body and the mind and the soul and the 29:39.986 --> 29:41.986 body, the body and the soul. 29:41.990 --> 29:46.290 Just like when you prick my body, that bodily process sets 29:46.290 --> 29:49.610 up certain things taking place in my soul. 29:49.609 --> 29:54.239 Maybe when B_1 through B_n take 29:54.236 --> 29:59.136 place, they set up some other processes in my soul. 29:59.140 --> 30:05.540 Call them S_1 through S_n. 30:05.539 --> 30:09.529 And maybe S_1 through S_n results in the 30:09.529 --> 30:11.219 destruction of my soul. 30:11.220 --> 30:19.560 So simultaneously with my body dying, my soul dies. 30:19.559 --> 30:22.949 Okay, this one's going to be a little bit trickier to draw. 30:22.950 --> 30:25.850 The first part, S_1..., 30:25.850 --> 30:28.480 that's easy. S_n. 30:28.480 --> 30:30.150 The question is: How do I draw the soul? 30:30.150 --> 30:30.630 I don't really know . 30:30.630 --> 30:40.450 30:40.450 --> 30:44.310 So the mere fact that we decide, if we do ultimately 30:44.309 --> 30:48.439 decide that there is a soul, something nonphysical, 30:48.443 --> 30:53.613 separate and distinct from the body, doesn't guarantee that we 30:53.609 --> 30:56.149 survive our physical death. 30:56.150 --> 30:59.550 That's going to be a separate question we'll have to turn to. 30:59.549 --> 31:01.979 The first question's going to be: Are there any souls? 31:01.980 --> 31:05.320 Next question is going to have to be: If there are, 31:05.315 --> 31:09.045 do we have any good reason to think that they survive the 31:09.052 --> 31:10.522 death of the body? 31:10.519 --> 31:15.909 Third question that might interest us, that does interest 31:15.910 --> 31:21.300 us, is this: If it survives, how long does it survive? 31:21.299 --> 31:26.209 Does the soul continue to exist after the death of the body? 31:26.210 --> 31:30.930 Does it continue to exist forever? 31:30.930 --> 31:33.270 Are we immortal? 31:33.270 --> 31:36.440 31:36.440 --> 31:38.330 Most of us would like that to be true. 31:38.329 --> 31:43.699 We want there to be souls so that we can be immortal. 31:43.700 --> 31:48.560 And so the question's got to be not only, is the soul distinct? 31:48.559 --> 31:50.689 Does it survive the death of my body? 31:50.690 --> 31:53.460 But does it continue to exist forever? 31:53.460 --> 31:57.390 31:57.390 --> 32:01.840 Those questions--hang on one second--are ones that especially 32:01.839 --> 32:04.519 interest Plato. So in about a week or so we'll 32:04.519 --> 32:06.269 start reading Plato's Phaedo. 32:06.269 --> 32:11.009 The purpose of that dialogue, of that philosophical work, 32:11.013 --> 32:14.913 is to argue for the immortality of the soul. 32:14.910 --> 32:16.120 That's a question we'll be turning to. 32:16.120 --> 32:27.720 Yeah? Student: [inaudible] 32:27.721 --> 32:43.051 Professor Shelly Kagan: Great. 32:43.050 --> 32:45.030 So the question is this. 32:45.029 --> 32:48.359 If the very idea of soul that we're working with here under 32:48.363 --> 32:51.873 the dualist picture is the soul as an immaterial substance, 32:51.869 --> 32:55.729 it's not made of ordinary atomic matter. 32:55.730 --> 32:59.390 If the soul is immaterial, doesn't it follow 32:59.388 --> 33:03.128 automatically, trivially, that the soul can't 33:03.131 --> 33:06.451 be destroyed by a material process? 33:06.450 --> 33:09.040 After all, there was death of the body, B_1 through 33:09.039 --> 33:11.349 B_n. That's a material process, 33:11.352 --> 33:12.602 a physical process. 33:12.599 --> 33:17.699 Doesn't it follow that a soul, an immaterial entity, 33:17.704 --> 33:23.014 can't be destroyed by a material, physical process? 33:23.010 --> 33:24.430 That's a great question. 33:24.430 --> 33:28.500 What I want to say is, the short answer for now is, 33:28.495 --> 33:31.825 I don't think it follows automatically. 33:31.830 --> 33:34.460 It doesn't follow trivially. 33:34.460 --> 33:37.770 It may follow. Plato's actually going to give 33:37.768 --> 33:41.028 us some arguments for pretty much that same claim. 33:41.029 --> 33:45.189 Plato's going to argue once we understand the sort of 33:45.185 --> 33:49.975 metaphysical nature of the soul, we'll see why it couldn't be 33:49.981 --> 33:52.751 destroyed. That's going to take some fancy 33:52.753 --> 33:55.603 arguments. The reason I think it doesn't 33:55.601 --> 34:00.121 follow trivially is because, remember, I said we're dealing 34:00.123 --> 34:02.543 with interactionist dualism. 34:02.539 --> 34:07.759 We've already admitted that bodies are able to affect the 34:07.763 --> 34:11.713 soul, right? The body is having all sorts of 34:11.708 --> 34:15.878 light bounce off my eyes of various wavelengths. 34:15.880 --> 34:20.210 And because of that my soul is having various visual sensations 34:20.211 --> 34:23.631 about the number of people in front of me, colors, 34:23.633 --> 34:25.523 and so forth and so on. 34:25.519 --> 34:27.559 I gave the example of pricking my body. 34:27.559 --> 34:33.359 That's a physical process that causes some sorts of changes in 34:33.363 --> 34:37.553 the mental processes occurring in my soul. 34:37.550 --> 34:43.080 Once we've admitted that on this kind of dualist picture the 34:43.081 --> 34:49.271 material body can influence what happens in the immaterial soul, 34:49.269 --> 34:52.439 then it doesn't seem that we have any grounds for shutting 34:52.436 --> 34:55.876 the door to the possibility that the right physical process, 34:55.880 --> 34:58.320 B_1 through B_n, 34:58.321 --> 35:01.811 might set up this horrible mental, soul process, 35:01.809 --> 35:03.439 S_1 through S_n, 35:03.443 --> 35:05.453 resulting in the destruction of the soul. 35:05.450 --> 35:06.980 It's a possibility. 35:06.980 --> 35:09.730 It's going to take more arguments to rule it out. 35:09.730 --> 35:17.310 Yeah? Student: [inaudible] 35:17.310 --> 35:32.630 Professor Shelly Kagan: Yeah, another great question. 35:32.630 --> 35:35.700 The question was: I said it seems plausible to 35:35.695 --> 35:38.145 say my soul is located, more or less, 35:38.147 --> 35:41.687 here because I seem to view the world from here. 35:41.690 --> 35:44.650 But maybe that's not right. 35:44.650 --> 35:49.270 Maybe we shouldn't talk about the location of the soul at all. 35:49.269 --> 35:54.809 After all, if the soul is an immaterial object, 35:54.811 --> 35:59.631 can immaterial objects have locations? 35:59.630 --> 36:03.320 I don't know. The short answer is I don't 36:03.320 --> 36:05.950 know. I know very little about how 36:05.952 --> 36:09.062 immaterial objects are supposed to work. 36:09.059 --> 36:14.009 So although I'm trying to sketch the dualist position, 36:14.006 --> 36:18.766 as I explained on Tuesday, I don't myself believe in 36:18.766 --> 36:23.066 souls. I don't actually think that the 36:23.071 --> 36:25.791 dualist view is correct. 36:25.789 --> 36:29.279 You might say, I'll leave that problem--are 36:29.275 --> 36:33.915 souls spatially located or not--to be worked out by those 36:33.923 --> 36:35.753 who believe in it. 36:35.750 --> 36:38.900 For our purposes, I think it doesn't really 36:38.895 --> 36:41.455 matter. If you want to say souls have a 36:41.458 --> 36:43.528 location, where are they located? 36:43.530 --> 36:45.550 They're located more or less where my body is. 36:45.550 --> 36:47.680 At least, as long as my body's working. 36:47.679 --> 36:51.519 Maybe at death the soul gets liberated from the body and is 36:51.519 --> 36:53.439 able to wander more freely. 36:53.440 --> 36:56.530 Sometimes people talk about, in fact we'll be reading about 36:56.533 --> 36:58.243 this, out-of-body experiences. 36:58.239 --> 37:01.429 And so maybe during those unusual times the soul wanders 37:01.432 --> 37:03.582 from the body and comes back to it. 37:03.579 --> 37:06.449 Or, alternatively, maybe the soul doesn't have any 37:06.454 --> 37:09.764 location at all. Maybe that's just an illusion 37:09.758 --> 37:14.258 created by the fact that I'm getting this visual input from 37:14.256 --> 37:16.986 my body. My body certainly has a 37:16.991 --> 37:19.611 location. Maybe the right way--imagine 37:19.605 --> 37:23.575 somebody who was in a room with remote control television setup 37:23.582 --> 37:25.252 and so forth and so on. 37:25.250 --> 37:28.420 And he's seeing what's happening in Chicago, 37:28.421 --> 37:32.111 even though he's sitting in a room in New Haven. 37:32.110 --> 37:35.660 Well, you could understand why he might fall into the trap of 37:35.658 --> 37:39.208 thinking of himself as located in Chicago with all the visual 37:39.206 --> 37:41.036 inputs coming from Chicago. 37:41.039 --> 37:42.909 So maybe that's how it works with the soul. 37:42.909 --> 37:46.449 We get lulled into thinking that we are where our bodies 37:46.453 --> 37:47.943 are. But that's really a 37:47.939 --> 37:49.269 metaphysical illusion. 37:49.270 --> 37:50.890 I don't really know. 37:50.889 --> 37:53.899 For our purposes, I think it's not crucial. 37:53.900 --> 37:57.430 Though it's a great question, but I'm not going to try to 37:57.427 --> 37:58.937 pursue it any further. 37:58.940 --> 38:00.480 All right. So one question: 38:00.481 --> 38:02.661 Is there a soul? Second question: 38:02.655 --> 38:05.565 Does it survive the death of our body? 38:05.570 --> 38:07.810 Third question: If it does, does it live 38:07.806 --> 38:09.266 forever? Does it continue to exist 38:09.269 --> 38:11.649 forever? Is the soul immortal? 38:11.650 --> 38:15.280 We will initially think about the first question: 38:15.277 --> 38:19.507 Do we have any good reason to believe in souls at all? 38:19.510 --> 38:23.660 And only after a while will we turn to the second and third 38:23.658 --> 38:27.088 question: Does it survive and, more particularly, 38:27.091 --> 38:30.621 is it immortal? That's the first basic view 38:30.624 --> 38:33.044 about the nature of a person. 38:33.039 --> 38:38.009 A person has a soul, something immaterial and not a 38:38.013 --> 38:40.403 body. I take it that the view is a 38:40.396 --> 38:42.816 familiar one. Many of you probably believe in 38:42.816 --> 38:44.066 it. Those of you who don't believe 38:44.073 --> 38:45.653 in it have probably, at least, been tempted to 38:45.653 --> 38:48.253 believe in it. I'm sure you all do know people 38:48.252 --> 38:49.482 who believe in it. 38:49.480 --> 38:53.210 It's a very familiar picture. 38:53.210 --> 38:55.070 But, of course, the question we're going to 38:55.069 --> 38:56.839 have to ask ourselves is: Is it right? 38:56.840 --> 39:00.870 Is there reasons to believe it's correct? 39:00.869 --> 39:06.739 Turn now to the second basic view, the physicalist view, 39:06.744 --> 39:11.554 according to which a person is just a body. 39:11.550 --> 39:14.100 This is a materialist view. 39:14.099 --> 39:18.999 People are just material objects, the sorts of things 39:18.996 --> 39:22.476 biologists poke and prod and study. 39:22.480 --> 39:27.880 It's important--I think this is the crucial point--that when we 39:27.878 --> 39:33.088 say a person is just a body, we don't understand that to 39:33.094 --> 39:38.794 mean--the physicalist doesn't mean that as--a person is just 39:38.786 --> 39:42.316 any old body. It's not as though there aren't 39:42.322 --> 39:46.052 important differences between different physical objects. 39:46.050 --> 39:51.110 Some physical objects can do things of a far more interesting 39:51.108 --> 39:54.058 sort than other physical objects. 39:54.060 --> 39:56.570 Here's a piece of chalk. 39:56.570 --> 39:58.280 It's a physical object. 39:58.280 --> 40:00.000 It's just a body. 40:00.000 --> 40:03.480 What can it do? Well, not a whole lot. 40:03.480 --> 40:05.410 I can write on the board with it. 40:05.410 --> 40:06.910 I can break it in two. 40:06.910 --> 40:10.210 You let go of it, it drops down. 40:10.210 --> 40:13.910 Not a very interesting physical body. 40:13.910 --> 40:15.790 Here's a cell phone. 40:15.790 --> 40:17.720 It's just a body. 40:17.719 --> 40:21.019 It's not the most interesting physical object in the world, 40:21.016 --> 40:23.966 but it's a whole lot more interesting than a piece of 40:23.971 --> 40:27.761 chalk. It can do all sorts of things a 40:27.761 --> 40:30.361 piece of chalk can't do. 40:30.360 --> 40:36.150 If the physicalist is right, then here's another physical 40:36.150 --> 40:39.770 object for you--me, Shelly Kagan. 40:39.769 --> 40:43.939 I'm a pretty impressive physical object. 40:43.940 --> 40:47.730 Now arrogant as I may be, I don't mean to suggest I'm any 40:47.726 --> 40:50.156 more impressive than you guys are. 40:50.159 --> 40:54.859 Each one of us, according to the physicalist, 40:54.858 --> 41:00.088 is just a body that can do some amazing things. 41:00.090 --> 41:04.410 We are bodies that can think. 41:04.410 --> 41:07.270 We are bodies that can plan. 41:07.270 --> 41:09.690 We are bodies that can reason. 41:09.690 --> 41:12.100 We are bodies that can feel. 41:12.099 --> 41:16.629 We are bodies that can be afraid and be creative and have 41:16.628 --> 41:18.648 dreams and aspirations. 41:18.650 --> 41:21.770 We are bodies that can communicate with each other. 41:21.769 --> 41:26.649 We are bodies that are--well, here's a word for it: 41:26.652 --> 41:29.682 We're bodies that are people. 41:29.679 --> 41:35.539 But on the physicalist view, a person is just a body. 41:35.539 --> 41:37.999 And that's where we'll take it up next time.